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Do You Have a Right to Repair What You Own?

Design News -- Companies, engineers, and product designers should keep their eyes on Massachusetts. The Massachusetts Right to Repair Coalition (MRRC), which comprises independent mechanics and parts retailers, has worked on a "right to repair" ballot initiative for the November 2012 election. The coalition contends auto manufacturers will not sell their members the same diagnostic and repair tools sold to the manufacturer's dealers. If passed by voters, the law would compel vehicle manufacturers to make tools and repair information available for anyone to buy. I suppose buyers in the Bay State could resell to anyone they wish, thus making the "close to the vest" tools and information widely available.

Of course, the authorized auto dealers want to protect their profitable repair and service businesses.

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Submitted Aug 12, 2012 By: doeslayersr

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itzagasgasgas1 Champion Author Cincinnati Posts:3,959 Points:1,596,570 Joined:Aug 2005	Message Posted: Aug 18, 2012 6:47:48 PM Ignore itzagasgasgas1 Report Abuse asked and answered
honda0105 Champion Author Tallahassee Posts:18,590 Points:1,606,595 Joined:Nov 2008	Message Posted: Aug 15, 2012 5:22:49 AM Ignore honda0105 Report Abuse Seems to me it's a good way to distract from the issues that are really important to the survival of the country. Can we say "smoke screen"?
honda0105 Champion Author Tallahassee Posts:18,590 Points:1,606,595 Joined:Nov 2008	Message Posted: Aug 14, 2012 5:33:52 AM Ignore honda0105 Report Abuse funny how those things always show up in highly contested election years. Where is that help for the little guy the rest of the time?
sparky808 Champion Author Honolulu Posts:2,986 Points:595,785 Joined:Sep 2011	Message Posted: Aug 13, 2012 12:25:45 PM Ignore sparky808 Report Abuse Thank you for posting.
Martinman Champion Author Mississippi Posts:14,724 Points:2,090,905 Joined:Sep 2005	Message Posted: Aug 13, 2012 9:24:17 AM Ignore Martinman Report Abuse 91Hilux from New Haven posted... "Wow. Actually something that will help regular people. Let's see how far this goes because I've lived in a place where the Corporations are allowed to withhold this information from the consumers: Japan." ----- And Japanese are trying to here as well. Japanese auto manufacturers are apparently thinking ahead - terms of the warranty on some models now state the warranty is void, if you have the repairs not done at a factory authorized repair center. Who controls 'who' is a factory authorized repair center. Who determines if the warranty has been voided? Realize that there is a number of internet-based repair data information services, that provide this information. For example, AllData, IndentiFix, Mitchell, and others. These are subscription-based services, that can get quite expensive. As such, they represent a barrier to entry for those that don't have the money based upon the size of their repair business.
jrs4125 Champion Author Indiana Posts:2,743 Points:588,820 Joined:Sep 2011	Message Posted: Aug 13, 2012 6:51:35 AM Ignore jrs4125 Report Abuse Bend over consumer
driver169 Champion Author New York Posts:12,125 Points:2,558,450 Joined:Jan 2006	Message Posted: Aug 13, 2012 4:22:32 AM Ignore driver169 Report Abuse eBay??? LMFAO!!!!!! You're joking, right?
Amplion Champion Author Oregon Posts:6,751 Points:1,862,135 Joined:Sep 2005	Message Posted: Aug 13, 2012 12:32:44 AM Ignore Amplion Report Abuse Don't buy any car that doesn't have the tools and parts available on eBay !!!
Amtrgas Champion Author Oakland Posts:2,678 Points:1,619,070 Joined:Dec 2007	Message Posted: Aug 13, 2012 12:09:27 AM Ignore Amtrgas Report Abuse I do repair what I own. I also repair what I want. The rest I leave to the professionals.
jrsva Champion Author Virginia Posts:9,840 Points:1,610,300 Joined:Jan 2006	Message Posted: Aug 13, 2012 12:03:19 AM Ignore jrsva Report Abuse Dealers will often jack up the price for service work and the sort of policies described here make it possible for them to do that with impunity in many cases. As an example of inflated charges, I was having a small warranty job done and the mechanic told me that my air cleaner was dirty and should be changed. I told him to go ahead, then found the element cost $24 plus $8 to install it, a job that took 2 minutes at most. I imagine I could have bought the element in a parts store for much less as well.
cashpayer Sophomore Author Raleigh Posts:147 Points:81,395 Joined:Feb 2012	Message Posted: Aug 13, 2012 12:02:52 AM Ignore cashpayer Report Abuse Yes. If I want to repair my own car or take it to someone of my choice I should be able to do it. If they need to be forced to make the tools and knowledge available to the public then so be it. No monopolies to favor overpriced dealerships.
Dodge_Me Champion Author Atlanta Posts:2,214 Points:553,980 Joined:Mar 2006	Message Posted: Aug 12, 2012 11:57:24 PM Ignore Dodge_Me Report Abuse IMHO we should have all the data about the vehicle we buy, since we are paying more than we ever have on vehicles, we should be able to at least purchase the details from the manufacturers and repair at our own risk.
chuckwthompson Champion Author Charlotte Posts:3,740 Points:574,260 Joined:Sep 2011	Message Posted: Aug 12, 2012 11:56:51 PM Ignore chuckwthompson Report Abuse We should have the right to repair our own vehicles.
Zonk Champion Author Michigan Posts:6,471 Points:2,100,065 Joined:Oct 2005	Message Posted: Aug 12, 2012 11:55:26 PM Ignore Zonk Report Abuse YES!
BobD2009 Champion Author Long Island Posts:6,974 Points:1,236,860 Joined:Apr 2009	Message Posted: Aug 12, 2012 11:54:08 PM Ignore BobD2009 Report Abuse Old news.
LCSTEELERBOB Champion Author Gary Posts:2,961 Points:720,030 Joined:Oct 2008	Message Posted: Aug 12, 2012 11:53:02 PM Ignore LCSTEELERBOB Report Abuse old issue
lewpuckett Champion Author Georgia Posts:1,155 Points:645,135 Joined:Mar 2011	Message Posted: Aug 12, 2012 11:52:09 PM Ignore lewpuckett Report Abuse old
bobdec Champion Author Miami Posts:8,949 Points:1,766,795 Joined:May 2008	Message Posted: Aug 12, 2012 11:48:55 PM Ignore bobdec Report Abuse Repeat
jetskijerry Champion Author North Carolina Posts:3,886 Points:770,320 Joined:Mar 2011	Message Posted: Aug 12, 2012 11:45:09 PM Ignore jetskijerry Report Abuse These tools should be made available to independent mrchanics. Otherwise, the price of service will be dictated by the manufacturers.
ShadowACE Champion Author Boston Posts:9,005 Points:2,147,565 Joined:Jun 2006	Message Posted: Aug 12, 2012 11:44:26 PM Ignore ShadowACE Report Abuse This article is a bit out of date. The ballot initiative was ready to rock and roll but there was a last-minute compromise agreement between the two parties and that has been signed into law by the Governor of the Commonwealth. The question will still appear on the ballot in November because there isn't enough time to reformat the ballots now, but they're trying to convince people to ignore the question because the matter is already settled. I won't be surprised if a LOT of people vote on the question anyway, just to let them know how we really feel about the issue.
carinthuist Champion Author San Francisco Posts:2,233 Points:327,310 Joined:Mar 2012	Message Posted: Aug 12, 2012 11:42:44 PM Ignore carinthuist Report Abuse yes
LetemEatCake Champion Author Oklahoma City Posts:5,596 Points:1,202,855 Joined:Mar 2008	Message Posted: Aug 12, 2012 11:41:18 PM Ignore LetemEatCake Report Abuse Too many vehicle require special tools to remove and add parts, such as star shaped screw drivers to remove headlight systems. Back in the day you could not get one of those for love nor money! It forced you to go to the dealer. E-Bay has loosened this up quite a bit lately. By the way Obama has nothing to do with this...auto manufacturers have been doing this for eons. And as one poster pointed out...if the part looks the same, has the same connections, brand (the high priced ones) make no difference. But you need to be a good shade tree mechanic to be able to substitute and save the money! Many parts are interchangeable.
southrob Champion Author Tucson Posts:3,590 Points:686,225 Joined:Mar 2011	Message Posted: Aug 12, 2012 11:40:15 PM Ignore southrob Report Abuse you would think or are we turning into russia
regout Champion Author Quebec Posts:2,940 Points:829,780 Joined:May 2010	Message Posted: Aug 12, 2012 11:40:10 PM Ignore regout Report Abuse Old news.
ShadowACE Champion Author Boston Posts:9,005 Points:2,147,565 Joined:Jun 2006	Message Posted: Aug 12, 2012 11:40:04 PM Ignore ShadowACE Report Abuse cheapchickKY says: "If you own it, you have the right to do what you want with it. If the manufacturers want to keep diagnostics with dealers, they should be able to. Are the independents willing to pay for training? Willing to take on warranty work? Willing to chip in on recalls and lawsuits" That's not such a swell idea, KY. I took my wife's car to a dealer for some "routine" service - the owner's manual says the timing belt should be replaced around 55-60k miles. When it got to 65k or so I decided it was time to stop tempting fate and get it done, so off to the dealer I went. The service writer smiled and said that the timing belt was a flat-rate job at $550, and then there was the $99 "diagnostic fee." I said "what diagnostic? The book says it needs to be done. There's nothing there to 'diagnose.'" Didn't matter. EVERY repair (except oil changes and brake work added an extra $99 to the total. My independent repair shop could have easily replaced the timing belt and it would have cost me about $425, but I figured I'd give that one to the dealer because that car has a 100k mile power train warranty and I wanted to be sure that wasn't affected. The dealers have been holding us hostage for a long time with this stuff. A lot of the independent shops have exactly the same diagnostic equipment the dealer shops have, but they can't get all of the same software. A lot of the independent technicians have worked at dealers shops, have been faftory/dealer trained, and are quite capable of doing the same repairs in the own shop that they did before in a dealer's shop. The idea that a technician isn't capable of repairing any vehicle unless it's done at a dealer's facility is ridiculous and demeaning. I've known techs who have repaired virtually every make of car from Acura to Zundapp. I've even known a few who built their own cars (and planes, too) from the ground up. Just because they are not (presently) employed by a dealer doesn't mean they're not every bit as capable as any of those dealer shop employees. [Edited by: ShadowACE at 8/13/2012 12:41:03 AM EST]
crreed1 Champion Author West Virginia Posts:1,975 Points:2,524,385 Joined:May 2005	Message Posted: Aug 12, 2012 11:34:58 PM Ignore crreed1 Report Abuse ok
UseLessGasFolks Champion Author Iowa Posts:5,431 Points:1,292,925 Joined:Jul 2007	Message Posted: Aug 12, 2012 11:34:08 PM Ignore UseLessGasFolks Report Abuse Was there a story about New Jersey doing the same thing?
1fulltank Champion Author Buffalo Posts:7,893 Points:1,542,360 Joined:Nov 2008	Message Posted: Aug 12, 2012 11:33:19 PM Ignore 1fulltank Report Abuse So much for "free" enterprise.
10k Champion Author North Carolina Posts:21,231 Points:2,252,070 Joined:May 2006	Message Posted: Aug 12, 2012 11:33:14 PM Ignore 10k Report Abuse sure do.. judgemobile: that would be funny, if it wasn't so truly sad..
rippinusoff Champion Author Lexington Posts:7,393 Points:1,485,075 Joined:May 2007	Message Posted: Aug 12, 2012 11:31:33 PM Ignore rippinusoff Report Abuse yes
jkpsr Champion Author New Jersey Posts:4,074 Points:1,100,930 Joined:Jun 2005	Message Posted: Aug 12, 2012 11:30:19 PM Ignore jkpsr Report Abuse This seems to be taking government intervention to extremes.
judgemobile Champion Author Ohio Posts:7,560 Points:2,443,185 Joined:Nov 2005	Message Posted: Aug 12, 2012 11:28:34 PM Ignore judgemobile Report Abuse Obama says I did not make that--so how can I fix it ?
Thomtec Champion Author Nashville Posts:2,448 Points:605,220 Joined:May 2011	Message Posted: Aug 12, 2012 11:28:30 PM Ignore Thomtec Report Abuse Ok
rollercoaster All-Star Author Hartford Posts:502 Points:567,660 Joined:Jul 2008	Message Posted: Aug 12, 2012 11:27:02 PM Ignore rollercoaster Report Abuse ok
probedude2 Champion Author Akron Posts:12,538 Points:2,377,280 Joined:Jun 2003	Message Posted: Aug 12, 2012 11:25:06 PM Ignore probedude2 Report Abuse Do You Have a Right to Reprogram the ECU in What You Own?
frostyWV Champion Author West Virginia Posts:2,339 Points:519,235 Joined:May 2011	Message Posted: Aug 12, 2012 11:24:54 PM Ignore frostyWV Report Abuse good
Rageagainsttm Champion Author Tampa Posts:8,288 Points:1,900,055 Joined:Jul 2007	Message Posted: Aug 12, 2012 11:23:28 PM Ignore Rageagainsttm Report Abuse yea
lou30 Sophomore Author Miami Posts:185 Points:318,525 Joined:Mar 2011	Message Posted: Aug 12, 2012 11:21:45 PM Ignore lou30 Report Abuse Fantastic if this passes and it starts a movement. I hated having to go to Toyota several years back to get something replaced because there was no generic and 3 mechanics told me that only Toyota was able to do it.
Bigwaynef Champion Author South Carolina Posts:11,458 Points:2,078,810 Joined:Dec 2006	Message Posted: Aug 12, 2012 11:21:33 PM Ignore Bigwaynef Report Abuse ya gotta ask dear ole Obamama
justmedc Veteran Author Michigan Posts:382 Points:174,045 Joined:Mar 2012	Message Posted: Aug 12, 2012 11:20:20 PM Ignore justmedc Report Abuse should get to pick where i spend the money i work for
cheapchickKY Champion Author Lexington Posts:4,007 Points:794,340 Joined:Jan 2011	Message Posted: Aug 12, 2012 11:20:19 PM Ignore cheapchickKY Report Abuse If you own it, you have the right to do what you want with it. If the manufacturers want to keep diagnostics with dealers, they should be able to. Are the independents willing to pay for training? Willing to take on warranty work? Willing to chip in on recalls and lawsuits? Want to make it like drugs, where the patent goes away after 7 years? How many independents would purchase & train in outdated technology? Ever notice a tag on electronics that if you open it, then the warranty is void?
Vitobug Champion Author El Paso Posts:1,950 Points:638,110 Joined:May 2011	Message Posted: Aug 12, 2012 11:18:23 PM Ignore Vitobug Report Abuse ok
mrbee Champion Author Little Rock Posts:3,743 Points:2,463,660 Joined:Oct 2005	Message Posted: Aug 12, 2012 11:18:18 PM Ignore mrbee Report Abuse Sounds good.
bradley1969 Champion Author Wisconsin Posts:1,523 Points:328,305 Joined:Mar 2012	Message Posted: Aug 12, 2012 11:16:12 PM Ignore bradley1969 Report Abuse OK..
mfeldstein Champion Author Ottawa Posts:8,161 Points:1,928,430 Joined:Feb 2007	Message Posted: Aug 12, 2012 11:14:57 PM Ignore mfeldstein Report Abuse This article is at least a week old.
dieselme2011 Champion Author Vancouver Posts:2,583 Points:600,790 Joined:Mar 2011	Message Posted: Aug 12, 2012 11:14:31 PM Ignore dieselme2011 Report Abuse k
MDTDriver Champion Author California Posts:9,714 Points:2,152,695 Joined:Jul 2006	Message Posted: Aug 12, 2012 11:14:23 PM Ignore MDTDriver Report Abuse I do what I want to, NO government tell me what I can not to my car.
DrLyon Champion Author Michigan Posts:6,640 Points:1,209,955 Joined:May 2006	Message Posted: Aug 12, 2012 11:13:55 PM Ignore DrLyon Report Abuse Right to repair, go...
arb0526 Champion Author Greensboro Posts:1,961 Points:407,695 Joined:Mar 2011	Message Posted: Aug 12, 2012 11:13:06 PM Ignore arb0526 Report Abuse Repost from over a week ago.
firasatali Champion Author Toronto Posts:3,085 Points:567,375 Joined:May 2011	Message Posted: Aug 12, 2012 11:12:48 PM Ignore firasatali Report Abuse ok