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Author	Topic: THE TRUTH - HARPER DID NOT SEND CANADIAN TROOPS TO KANDAHAR	Topic is locked Back to Topics

Roadrobber Champion Author Ontario Posts:13,781 Points:1,880,300 Joined:Jun 2004	Message Posted: May 1, 2006 2:39:44 PM Ignore Roadrobber Report Abuse I have read many times in this section, Canada politics, about how Harper changed the role of the Canadian military in Afghanistan from Peacekeeping to warfighting. The facts are as follows: "Operation ATHENA The CF returned to the effort to stabilize and reconstruct Afghanistan in August 2003 under Operation ATHENA, the deployment of a large contingent in Kabul to serve with the International Security Assistance Force (ISAF). Of note, from February to August 2004, then Lieutenant-General Rick Hillier commanded ISAF, which comprised at that point some 6,500 troops from 35 countries. Over five successive six-month rotations since August 2003, Canadian soldiers deployed on Operation ATHENA routinely conducting foot patrols and surveillance missions in the ISAF area of responsibility and co-operated with other ISAF contingents in a variety of missions and projects. Through these activities, the Canadian contingent provided ISAF with key military presence and capability, intelligence, situational awareness, and helped facilitate rebuilding the democratic process for the Afghan National Assembly and Provincial Council elections. On October 18, 2005, Operation ATHENA ended with the withdrawal of the Canadian reconnaissance squadron from ISAF, and the end of five deployments of CF personnel to the Kabul area since August 2003, when the Canadian government first made a commitment to help the international community maintain a safe and secure environment in and around Kabul. On November 29, 2005, the last Canadian material assets were moved and shipped out to Kandahar, and Camp Julien was officially handed over to the Afghan Ministry of Defence." These are the facts about what happened in Afghanistan. Our troops weren't sent there as Peacekeepers in the first place and Harper wasn't responsible for moving the troops to Kandahar. As you can read for yourself above, the move took place on 29 Nov 05, long before the election on 23 Jan 06. It really doesn't matter who did what, because I support the deployment to Afghanistan and I also support the deployment to Kandahar. I support our troops 100%.

Roadrobber

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Ontario

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Message Posted: May 1, 2006 2:39:44 PM

Ignore Roadrobber Report Abuse

I have read many times in this section, Canada politics, about how Harper changed the role of the Canadian military in Afghanistan from Peacekeeping to warfighting. The facts are as follows:

"Operation ATHENA

The CF returned to the effort to stabilize and reconstruct Afghanistan in August 2003 under Operation ATHENA, the deployment of a large contingent in Kabul to serve with the International Security Assistance Force (ISAF). Of note, from February to August 2004, then Lieutenant-General Rick Hillier commanded ISAF, which comprised at that point some 6,500 troops from 35 countries.

Over five successive six-month rotations since August 2003, Canadian soldiers deployed on Operation ATHENA routinely conducting foot patrols and surveillance missions in the ISAF area of responsibility and co-operated with other ISAF contingents in a variety of missions and projects. Through these activities, the Canadian contingent provided ISAF with key military presence and capability, intelligence, situational awareness, and helped facilitate rebuilding the democratic process for the Afghan National Assembly and Provincial Council elections.

On October 18, 2005, Operation ATHENA ended with the withdrawal of the Canadian reconnaissance squadron from ISAF, and the end of five deployments of CF personnel to the Kabul area since August 2003, when the Canadian government first made a commitment to help the international community maintain a safe and secure environment in and around Kabul.

On November 29, 2005, the last Canadian material assets were moved and shipped out to Kandahar, and Camp Julien was officially handed over to the Afghan Ministry of Defence."

These are the facts about what happened in Afghanistan. Our troops weren't sent there as Peacekeepers in the first place and Harper wasn't responsible for moving the troops to Kandahar. As you can read for yourself above, the move took place on 29 Nov 05, long before the election on 23 Jan 06.

It really doesn't matter who did what, because I support the deployment to Afghanistan and I also support the deployment to Kandahar. I support our troops 100%.

REPLIES (newest first)Ignore Short Messages

Roadrobber Champion Author Ontario Posts:13,781 Points:1,880,300 Joined:Jun 2004	Message Posted: Jun 19, 2007 5:55:47 PM Ignore Roadrobber Report Abuse Sorry, never been to Kandahar, Saskatchewan, but I did bivouac in Foam Lake one year on my way to Wainwright, Alberta for EXERCISE RENDEVOUZ 89. Man, the water tasted like sulphur, but our convoy sure looked great crossing the prairies.
herbiepopnecker Champion Author British Columbia Posts:13,621 Points:2,510,230 Joined:Sep 2005	Message Posted: Jun 16, 2007 9:31:02 PM Ignore herbiepopnecker Report Abuse Correct, but he's the one that's going to pay the price if he doesn't start thinking of an exit strategy. REAL soon....
Handiman Champion Author Saskatchewan Posts:17,457 Points:3,115,625 Joined:Feb 2004	Message Posted: Jun 14, 2007 10:13:15 PM Ignore Handiman Report Abuse Road---is that Kandahar Afganistan or Kandahar Saskatchewan---never seen any Troops there so they must be in Afganistan---but you are right, Harper did not send them, he just told them they had to stay
oldtrout03 Champion Author Nova Scotia Posts:17,535 Points:2,995,825 Joined:Aug 2004	Message Posted: Mar 15, 2007 4:43:21 PM Ignore oldtrout03 Report Abuse Road.. yep I have an idea of the history of Afghanistan,having been there in 2002,2003 and 2005 just for appox. A month each time; I have been asked to return in 2007 for at least 3 weeks in late June or July, I probably will take the contract and go. I am saying this because I worked under the Liberals and now the Tories and yep we are at war and have been since day one. Anyone who is playing politics with this issue is playing politics with our troops and the rest of us trying to make A difference. I personally feel that if anyone wants to play politics should be complaining about taxes,or the Gov. here in Canada....
RDMAN Champion Author Ontario Posts:135,602 Points:2,423,135 Joined:Aug 2006	Message Posted: Mar 15, 2007 3:42:24 PM Ignore RDMAN Report Abuse ""I guarantee you that even if the Liberals had been re-elected in the last election, Canadian troops would be doing the same thing in Kandahar as they are now"" CTV National News 11 March 2007 "The co-operative effort came just days after news broke that three Afghan prisoners who are considered key witnesses in a probe into allegations of abuse by Canadian soldiers disappeared." The last time I recall this type of thing happening was in Somalia,, the troops were brought home and the unit was disbanded?? Not to be to political that was at the time of Liberal Government. [Edited by: RDMAN at 3/15/2007 4:44:53 PM EST]
Roadrobber Champion Author Ontario Posts:13,781 Points:1,880,300 Joined:Jun 2004	Message Posted: Mar 15, 2007 11:16:32 AM Ignore Roadrobber Report Abuse oldtrout, at least you know what's going on in Afghanistan. Good to see.
oldtrout03 Champion Author Nova Scotia Posts:17,535 Points:2,995,825 Joined:Aug 2004	Message Posted: Mar 15, 2007 4:16:03 AM Ignore oldtrout03 Report Abuse Canada went to Afghanistan in 2001,as part of the NATO mission,we were at war than and we still are.However about half of the troops are involved with the re-construction of Afghanistan.
Roadrobber Champion Author Ontario Posts:13,781 Points:1,880,300 Joined:Jun 2004	Message Posted: Mar 14, 2007 8:07:56 PM Ignore Roadrobber Report Abuse So what happens if all the troops pull out of Afghanistan? Do you think the Taliban will stay away?
RDMAN Champion Author Ontario Posts:135,602 Points:2,423,135 Joined:Aug 2006	Message Posted: Mar 14, 2007 3:43:13 PM Ignore RDMAN Report Abuse [t doesn't really matter who sent then there. We all know what the purpose was. To get the Taliban out of of power so reconstruction and assistance can begin.] Mission accomplished lets get them home as soon as possible EH All the killing going on is not helpful
Roadrobber Champion Author Ontario Posts:13,781 Points:1,880,300 Joined:Jun 2004	Message Posted: Mar 14, 2007 8:37:40 AM Ignore Roadrobber Report Abuse LOL to RDMAN's reply. I think I get it now. There is no substantiation for your accusation that Canadian troops are only in combat operations in Afghanistan as a result of the Conservation government. It doesn't really matter who sent then there. We all know what the purpose was/is. To get the Taliban out of of power and establish security so reconstruction and assistance can begin.
oldtrout03 Champion Author Nova Scotia Posts:17,535 Points:2,995,825 Joined:Aug 2004	Message Posted: Mar 13, 2007 7:24:38 PM Ignore oldtrout03 Report Abuse Road...I suspect that it will never happen..
RDMAN Champion Author Ontario Posts:135,602 Points:2,423,135 Joined:Aug 2006	Message Posted: Mar 13, 2007 7:12:29 PM Ignore RDMAN Report Abuse "RDMAN, will an answer be forthcoming soon" ????????? Sorry I did not see a question, just a long rant by you stating your idea of what went on and what might have happened if if if...... "Give me one unbiased article from anywhere, just one reference, even just a little one," I do not want to get a p___ing contest with you so please do not get to excided EH
Roadrobber Champion Author Ontario Posts:13,781 Points:1,880,300 Joined:Jun 2004	Message Posted: Mar 13, 2007 1:21:20 PM Ignore Roadrobber Report Abuse RDMAN, will an answer be forthcoming soon
Roadrobber Champion Author Ontario Posts:13,781 Points:1,880,300 Joined:Jun 2004	Message Posted: Mar 9, 2007 10:08:46 PM Ignore Roadrobber Report Abuse RDMAN, you could not be farther from the truth. Basically, you're stating Canadian troops were send to Afghanistan as Peacekeepers. Give me one unbiased article from anywhere, just one reference, even just a little one, where it says that Canadians were send to Afghanistan by the Liberals to be Peacekeepers. The Canadians are there with NATO and NATO's mission is not Peacekeeping. It boggles my mind that people still think of Canadian soldiers just as Peacekeepers. I guarantee you that even if the Liberals had been re-elected in the last election, Canadian troops would be doing the same thing in Kandahar as they are doing now. Stop using our troops for cheap political points.
oldtrout03 Champion Author Nova Scotia Posts:17,535 Points:2,995,825 Joined:Aug 2004	Message Posted: Mar 8, 2007 6:51:32 PM Ignore oldtrout03 Report Abuse It never was A peace keeping mission,Roadrobber I am glad someone here has an understanding of the situation over there....unlike someone who is trying to make it A political issue. I to support the troops and the mission...
RDMAN Champion Author Ontario Posts:135,602 Points:2,423,135 Joined:Aug 2006	Message Posted: Mar 8, 2007 6:15:05 PM Ignore RDMAN Report Abuse Harper did not send the troops to the south of Afghanistan but he sure did change the mission. From peace keeping and reconstuction to aggressive war [Edited by: RDMAN at 3/8/2007 7:18:11 PM EST]
Roadrobber Champion Author Ontario Posts:13,781 Points:1,880,300 Joined:Jun 2004	Message Posted: Mar 7, 2007 8:35:58 PM Ignore Roadrobber Report Abuse Seems like this is becoming an issue again with the Liberals. Liberal Parliamentary Secretary John Baird said yesterday the war in Afghanistan is now Harpers War because the Liberals sent troops there as Peacekeepers and not as combat troops. This infuriates me so much. The Liberals knew when they sent Canadian troops to Afghanistan that they would be engaged in combat. Even the Chief of Defense Staff, Rick Hillier, warned Canadians that Canadian troops were trained to kill and they could expect Canadian casualties in Afghanistan. This statement was made when Paul Martin was still Prime Minister. Does anyone out there believe that that Liberals are not a bunch of lying weasels. No wonder they're refered to as the LIEberal Party. They obviously haven't learned anything from past mistakes and are doomed to keep repeating them as a result of their arrogant attitude.
Roadrobber Champion Author Ontario Posts:13,781 Points:1,880,300 Joined:Jun 2004	Message Posted: May 14, 2006 7:40:07 AM Ignore Roadrobber Report Abuse DreamGirl, sorry to hear about your cousin. As I stated before, Canadians weren't sent to Afghanistan as Peacekeepers. If you can provide me with info that counters my statement, I will change my stance on this subject. As a thought, who exactly were they keeping the peace between? Peacekeeping is placing a force of observers between two parties to ensure they don't fight. This never was the mission in Afghanistan.
zippylady Champion Author Toronto Posts:38,489 Points:2,783,805 Joined:Aug 2005	Message Posted: May 14, 2006 7:29:51 AM Ignore zippylady Report Abuse RoadRobber, No, I said my Father and Uncles volunteered. May they all RIP. They were my heroes. [Edited by: zippylady at 5/14/2006 8:31:05 AM EST]
DreamGirl Champion Author Toronto Posts:5,012 Points:513,770 Joined:Sep 2005	Message Posted: May 13, 2006 11:45:08 PM Ignore DreamGirl Report Abuse My cousin died in Afghanistan while being there as a Peace Keeper. Their mission were Peace Keeping ONLY. They were not sent there to fight. ENOUGH SAID.
Roadrobber Champion Author Ontario Posts:13,781 Points:1,880,300 Joined:Jun 2004	Message Posted: May 13, 2006 6:28:48 PM Ignore Roadrobber Report Abuse Hi Zippylady, When I referred to conscription, I meant forcefully conscripting people to fight in WWII overseas. You mentioned that your father and uncles were conscripted. Well, technically, this is true, but the conscripts were only required for "home duties" in Canada and were not sent overseas to fight. Here's some info from the War Museum website: "Conscription, or compulsory military service, divided the nation in the Second World War and threatened the survival of political leaders. In 1939 Prime Minister Mackenzie King, conscious of the opposition of French-speaking Quebec to conscription in the First World War, promised that there would be no conscription for overseas service. By mid-1940, however, there was enormous pressure from English Canada for total mobilization of manpower. King introduced the National Resources Mobilization Act (NRMA), which called for a national registration of eligible men and authorized conscription for home defence. From April 1941 the young men called up were required to serve for the rest of the war on home defence duties. But this was not enough for some in English-Canada, which provided the bulk of the volunteers for the armed forces. They had an uncomplimentary name for the NRMA conscripts, calling them "zombies" - the living dead, only half human, who peopled horror movies. Increasingly, there was pressure on the "zombies" to volunteer for overseas service. With the entry of Japan into the war in December 1941 came further demands for overseas conscription. In a plebiscite of April 1942, King asked Canadians to release him from his 1939 promise. Overall, the "Yes" side won, with 64%, but Quebeckers voted 73% against and many other non-English-Canadians were also opposed. The NRMA was amended to allow conscription for overseas service, but for now King went no further because there were sufficient volunteers still available."
Screwembak Champion Author Calgary Posts:16,986 Points:3,353,185 Joined:Dec 2003	Message Posted: May 12, 2006 8:46:26 PM Ignore Screwembak Report Abuse Maybe the Liberal's should have told the country the real scope of the mission when the troops were deployed.
zippylady Champion Author Toronto Posts:38,489 Points:2,783,805 Joined:Aug 2005	Message Posted: May 11, 2006 2:45:17 PM Ignore zippylady Report Abuse RoadRobber, there was conscription in WWII. My father and uncles were volunteers but not enough fellows signed up, so they conscripted them.
Roadrobber Champion Author Ontario Posts:13,781 Points:1,880,300 Joined:Jun 2004	Message Posted: May 11, 2006 2:25:34 PM Ignore Roadrobber Report Abuse Topaz, the US still has 16,000 soldiers in Afghanistan. That is a significant number. With regards to service in the Canadian Forces, there is no draft in Canada. It is an all volunteer force. The government has never forced Canadians to join the military, not even in WWI or WWII. I don't think they'll do it for Afghanistan. Also, the younger soldiers are actually the most mentally and physically fit to fight in a war.
Roadrobber Champion Author Ontario Posts:13,781 Points:1,880,300 Joined:Jun 2004	Message Posted: May 11, 2006 7:28:39 AM Ignore Roadrobber Report Abuse Klauschen, exactly what is your question?
Roadrobber Champion Author Ontario Posts:13,781 Points:1,880,300 Joined:Jun 2004	Message Posted: May 10, 2006 9:49:27 AM Ignore Roadrobber Report Abuse Klauschen, peacekeepers who don't carry guns are called "civilians".
Roadrobber Champion Author Ontario Posts:13,781 Points:1,880,300 Joined:Jun 2004	Message Posted: May 5, 2006 8:53:05 AM Ignore Roadrobber Report Abuse The USA was attacked by Al-Qaeda. Since the USA is a member of NATO, it's the same as if Al-Qaeda attacked all the countries in NATO. It's called collective defense.
zippylady Champion Author Toronto Posts:38,489 Points:2,783,805 Joined:Aug 2005	Message Posted: May 4, 2006 9:33:23 PM Ignore zippylady Report Abuse Klauschen has a point, but his hair covers most of it!! LOL LOL LOL
Roadrobber Champion Author Ontario Posts:13,781 Points:1,880,300 Joined:Jun 2004	Message Posted: May 4, 2006 6:33:37 AM Ignore Roadrobber Report Abuse Klauschen, you're so funny! :)
herbiepopnecker Champion Author British Columbia Posts:13,621 Points:2,510,230 Joined:Sep 2005	Message Posted: May 2, 2006 11:04:47 AM Ignore herbiepopnecker Report Abuse We went to Afghanistan to hunt down and kill the terrorists. El Queada. Then the Taliban. Now what we have to keep in mind is that when some of the other Afghanis start getting pissed at armed foreigners in their country, they may NOT be terrorists. We have to do the job and clear the military out, with that distinction in mind. They have to know we have no intention of being an ongoing or occupying force, or the average Afghani will turn against us. So the decision making has to be in Ottawa, not Wshington. The USA in not very good at making those distinctions.
zippylady Champion Author Toronto Posts:38,489 Points:2,783,805 Joined:Aug 2005	Message Posted: May 2, 2006 9:23:04 AM Ignore zippylady Report Abuse Yes, and that poor submariner who burned to death was during the Lieberal rule. There were many others who died in the service of this country during that 12 years. How sad that he chooses a Gas prices forum to make degrading comments about such deaths....anything for an arguement.
Roadrobber Champion Author Ontario Posts:13,781 Points:1,880,300 Joined:Jun 2004	Message Posted: May 2, 2006 8:34:56 AM Ignore Roadrobber Report Abuse Concerning Klauschen's statement that "the Liberals did not have any dead bodies"...here's an excerpt from a press release from the Prime Ministers Office on 18 Apr 02: A Statement by Prime Minister Jean Chrétien to the House of Commons Concerning Canadian Casualties in Afghanistan April 18, 2002 Ottawa, Ontario Yesterday, the House marked the celebration of 20 years of our Canadian Charter of Rights and Freedoms. Last night, our nation was reminded of the precious cost that comes with the standing up for the rights and freedoms that we hold so dear. We learned that 4 Canadian soldiers of Princess Patricia’s Light Infantry had been killed and 8 others wounded in an awful accident that occurred during a live fire exercise near Kandahar in Afghanistan. While we still do not know all the facts, it is clear that these casualties were inflicted by friendly fire from an American fighter jet. So far in this thread, Roadrobber 2 Klauschen 0 [Edited by: Roadrobber at 5/2/2006 9:35:11 AM EST]
Roadrobber Champion Author Ontario Posts:13,781 Points:1,880,300 Joined:Jun 2004	Message Posted: May 2, 2006 8:19:57 AM Ignore Roadrobber Report Abuse Klauschen, Canadian troops were never sent to Afghanistan to be Peacekeepers. You can repeat your view that the mission changed only under the Conservative government if you want but nobody believes you. If Canadian troops moved to Kandahar in Nov 05, who do you think was in power in Ottawa at that time?
Handiman Champion Author Saskatchewan Posts:17,457 Points:3,115,625 Joined:Feb 2004	Message Posted: May 1, 2006 9:08:50 PM Ignore Handiman Report Abuse klaus--- the plain truth is that the Liberals were in power when the decission was made to send our troops to Afganistan----I never heard the phrase Peace Keepers mentioned when they were deployed----they were sent over to protect our specialists---peace keepers are those that separate waring factions---there are no waring factions just insergence, this time Canadians were to be peace makers and that means they are going to be in the line of fire---and the Liberals knew that when they sent our troops over there
J47514326 Champion Author Ontario Posts:22,049 Points:3,692,930 Joined:Feb 2003	Message Posted: May 1, 2006 7:10:55 PM Ignore J47514326 Report Abuse Well of course it's the Liberals who started to send troops, there may be the possibility that other could add if the situations continues to aggravate there. I would have hope it would without fighting, though.
zippylady Champion Author Toronto Posts:38,489 Points:2,783,805 Joined:Aug 2005	Message Posted: May 1, 2006 6:52:56 PM Ignore zippylady Report Abuse Gosh, wait til someone see this...LOL ;D He'll have your head on a plate! LOL ;D And you know who I mean....ROTFLMAO ;D