msantos
Rookie Author
Winnipeg
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Message Posted: May 2, 2008 9:34:25 AM
MadLaker:
The return on the cost is also a no-brainer for many people. Take us Canadians for example:
You get $2000 back from the Feds if you buy the Prius or Civic Hybrid.
Then, you get another $2000-$3000 in many provinces in Canada (in manitoba you get $2000). This pretty much places the Civic Hybrid at or below the cost level of the top of the line Civic EX with Auto. Of course, the Civic Hybrid is fully loaded and so is the EX so there's almost no point comparing it to the lower Civic trims.
Then you have the insurance. In many provinces the Civic hybrid is cheaper to insure than any other Civic (Manitoba is an example). Why, because hybrid drivers have been profiled as "safer" drivers.
Then you have the lower maintenance costs like brake wear since the brake pads on the hybrid will literally last the life of the car. Factor in the lower number of oil changes (kind of offset by the price of the required 0W20) plus many other things like lower gas consumption and it becomes pointless to wonder about the return on the cost.
Then... you have to think of the re-sale value as well, as it is MUCH higher for the hybrid.
Then... you have the reliability, which is again higher for the hybrid than all the other Civic models.
Here's a link to the latest 2008 IntelliChoice report on reliability and re-sale value for additional info.http://priuschat.com/forums/attachments/prius-hybrid-news/...
text deleted
Cheers;
MSantos
[Edited by: msantos at 5/2/2008 10:37:04 AM EST]
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Happyherman
Champion Author
Calgary
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Message Posted: May 1, 2008 5:28:51 PM
msantos,
You are the first person to give me straight answers. Two Honda dealers didn't give me as much info as you did. Sure glad we have this forum. As for the block heater, of course I understand all that stuff. I have lived all of my 63 years in Alberta. My first car was an air cooled beetle so I'm very wary of heat. Tried a VW gas heater and was scared I would blow myslef up and hated the stench. I was so happy to get a Chevy with a real heater. To this day I think that GM has a better heater than Honda but not by much. I have had two Accords, two TL's and my bride has had two Civics so we are all about Honda products. Just still not sure that the added capital cost will give me a return. Having said that you have given me food for thought so thanks.
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msantos
Rookie Author
Winnipeg
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Message Posted: Apr 29, 2008 12:19:06 PM
Mad Laker:
Those are good questions. All of today's hybrids derive their cabin heat from the engine coolant. Yes, all hybrids will run their gas engines very often during the colder winter months but they employ many heat and aerodynamic tweaks to maximize the chances of retaining whatever heat they generate - some hybrids even have a thermos canister that prevents the heat from escaping. Besides, with the simple blocking of the front grill and the use of a block heater you can still minimize the amount of time the Gas engines run.
Second, if you take the Civic Hybrid as an example you'll notice that even if the gas engine runs most of the time in the colder months it is still more fuel efficient than the regular Civic. The 1.3L gas engine on the Civic Hybrid sports three different modes of operation and is one of the most friction free engines in the world. The CVT transmission is yet another key to great fuel economy, particularly on the highway... and there are many other elements of its design that I could go into that play a very important role in attaining improved fuel economy.
Third, the hybrid batteries are designed to last the life of the car and are warrantied for 8 years- In some States in the US the warranties go as far as 15 years. The first generation hybrids did have *some* battery replacements as Honda had yet to profile their behavior completely and accurately back then. But even those that were replaced, were paid for by Honda (in part in some cases and completely in others).
The battery packs you find in today's hybrids are not your regular batteries. They are neither heavy nor are they short lived nor are they bad for the environment as your regular Lead-Acid battery. Its a new world and a new more informed outlook indeed.
Cheers;
MSantos
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Happyherman
Champion Author
Calgary
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Message Posted: Apr 28, 2008 5:41:37 PM
Thegonagle, That's my point exactly, The gas engine stays running so where is the fuel economy. Up here the gas engine would be needed for nine of the twelve months.
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Speedy23
Champion Author
London
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Message Posted: Apr 27, 2008 1:02:02 AM
I took my dad's 2006 insight on a trip From Ontario to NC. My average MPG on the way down was 77mpg. Before I got into the mountains in West Virginia I was getting 83mpg. Why they don't make this car anymore is beyond me. It makes the Prius look like a joke (unless you're taking multiple passengers)
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Thegonagle
Sophomore Author
Twin Cities
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Message Posted: Apr 22, 2008 2:06:42 PM
The heat question is a simple one.
The climate control system in every hybrid I've seen is automatic. You set the temperature, and the computer figures out the rest. If the coolant temperature becomes insufficient to heat the interior, the gasoline engine stays running. That uses a little extra gas, but nothing's free in thermodynamics.
Heat is no problem in the winter.
And I've never heard of the powertrain batteries going out except on first year Insights, which didn't have enough battery protection cushion programmed into their powertrain control modules.
Any batteries that failed prematurely have replaced under warranty, and the cars' PCMs have been re-flashed with new firmware which eliminates the issue.
Furthermore, like all technology, those battery packs have come down quite far in price as production has gone up.
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Happyherman
Champion Author
Calgary
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Message Posted: Apr 18, 2008 12:53:36 PM
So if you live in a cold climate how do you get heat? msantos help me out?? I still don't believe in a hybrid. High initial cost and the cost to replace the battery after only 5 - 6 years together with the heat thing makes ne wary.
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msantos
Rookie Author
Winnipeg
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Message Posted: Dec 16, 2007 9:12:29 AM
Of course my "hybrids have" delivered for me. Notice the plural, because as far as my household is concerned traditional gas-only vehicles are a thing of the past.
Keep checking this thread and other hybrid specific forums and you'll see I am hardly alone.
Jay4Runner:
There is nothing more embarrassing than showing with such authority how ignorant we are about a specific topic. In your case, saying that "Hybrids are for city driving" clearly shows you do not own one... and hence do not know any better.
This is a Honda sub-forum right? Then please learn this:
The Honda IMA is a better performer in the highway than in the City.
The Toyota HSD is a better performance on the city than on the highway.
Cheers;
MSantos
[Edited by: msantos at 12/16/2007 10:13:54 AM EST]
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Jay4Runner
Champion Author
Oakland
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Message Posted: Dec 15, 2007 12:48:20 PM
It is well known that Hybrids are for city driving. Once you get on the freeway you are just driving a regular car. And such a waste when people drive their Hybrids over 70 mph like idiots.
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tmcmath
Rookie Author
New Hampshire
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Message Posted: Aug 25, 2006 10:33:16 AM
I bought my HCH in May 2006. So far I have averaged 44 - 46 MPG. I drove the car to Tampa, Florida about a month ago, I got horrible gas mileage (35 MPG at best) due to the flat torain and extreme heat. This car gets better gas mileage on the back roads than on the highway.
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