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Author	Topic: john Hofmeister former CEO of Shell suggests flex fuel cars using ethanol and methanol.	Post a Reply Back to Topics

gamechanger2011 Champion Author Wichita Posts:1,597 Points:57,185 Joined:Jun 2011	Message Posted: Mar 17, 2012 6:27:41 PM Ignore gamechanger2011 Report Abuse an interview with the former CEO of Shell Oil, John Hofmeister. He says gasoline could very well go to five dollars a gallon or higher in America. He has a plan to fix this. One of his suggestions is flex fuel cars: Using ethanol and methanol. John Hofmeister former CEO for Shell interview

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an interview with the former CEO of Shell Oil, John Hofmeister. He says gasoline could very well go to five dollars a gallon or higher in America.

He has a plan to fix this. One of his suggestions is flex fuel cars: Using ethanol and methanol.

John Hofmeister former CEO for Shell interview

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Penny_Pincher Veteran Author Columbus Posts:435 Points:22,695 Joined:Aug 2005	Message Posted: Apr 30, 2012 4:37:47 PM Ignore Penny_Pincher Report Abuse Yes, Methanol. Can be made cheaply from natural gas, which Shell produces. So, of course they want to sell you some.
Shockjock1961 Champion Author Illinois Posts:20,375 Points:2,211,885 Joined:Apr 2006	Message Posted: Apr 30, 2012 2:43:26 PM Ignore Shockjock1961 Report Abuse Of course, what do you expect from a fuel that currently uses 40% of the corn harvest to produce enough fuel to replace less then 3.5% of our transportation liquid fuel?
Shockjock1961 Champion Author Illinois Posts:20,375 Points:2,211,885 Joined:Apr 2006	Message Posted: Apr 30, 2012 2:41:35 PM Ignore Shockjock1961 Report Abuse "There are parts of the US that don't have E85 and few parts of Canada that do" For a fuel that, according to the ethanol shills, can replace gasoline, it sure seems to be scarce...
SilverStreaker Champion Author Twin Cities Posts:12,076 Points:2,244,100 Joined:Mar 2006	Message Posted: Apr 30, 2012 2:26:44 PM Ignore SilverStreaker Report Abuse Shockjock1961 says "I think they should develop a vehicle that is optimized to run ONLY on ethanol." You obviously don't travel much. There are parts of the US that don't have E85 and few parts of Canada that do. I assume you mean "run only on E85", since you can't buy pure ethanol at any filling stations.
Shockjock1961 Champion Author Illinois Posts:20,375 Points:2,211,885 Joined:Apr 2006	Message Posted: Apr 30, 2012 1:45:31 PM Ignore Shockjock1961 Report Abuse "They already do.....it isn't rocket science. But why would they do that when there are cars that run well (and get good mileage) on both fuels, gasoline and E85?" All your fellow ethanaholics seem to disagree with you.. [Edited by: Shockjock1961 at 4/30/2012 2:46:09 PM EST]
mr157ifhz Sophomore Author Gasbuddy Posts:155 Points:3,120 Joined:Mar 2012	Message Posted: Apr 30, 2012 11:47:42 AM Ignore mr157ifhz Report Abuse 'I think they should develop a vehicle that is optimized to run ONLY on ethanol' ~They already do.....it isn't rocket science. But why would they do that when there are cars that run well (and get good mileage) on both fuels, gasoline and E85? Where would a ethanol-only vehicle fill up? Would be fine if straight ethanol was as widely available as gasoline, but it isn't. Nope, good flex-fuel vehicles are needed. Europe and Brazil has them, why not the US? -Matt
Shockjock1961 Champion Author Illinois Posts:20,375 Points:2,211,885 Joined:Apr 2006	Message Posted: Apr 30, 2012 10:05:50 AM Ignore Shockjock1961 Report Abuse "The auto manufacturers should make an FFV optimized for ethanol and with high MPG, instead of the junk they are producing" I think they should develop a vehicle that is optimized to run ONLY on ethanol.
timmyC4 Veteran Author Twin Cities Posts:417 Points:60,600 Joined:May 2007	Message Posted: Apr 30, 2012 8:58:30 AM Ignore timmyC4 Report Abuse Flex fuel on the back of cars is a joke. I burn Diesel, 96 Passat TDI - 50mpg @ 70mph.
SilverStreaker Champion Author Twin Cities Posts:12,076 Points:2,244,100 Joined:Mar 2006	Message Posted: Apr 29, 2012 10:47:01 PM Ignore SilverStreaker Report Abuse The auto manufacturers should make an FFV optimized for ethanol and with high MPG, instead of the junk they are producing.
krzysiek_ck Champion Author Illinois Posts:5,500 Points:756,835 Joined:Apr 2011	Message Posted: Mar 20, 2012 7:22:45 AM Ignore krzysiek_ck Report Abuse Shockjock1961 picks a part of the sentence again. His is full copy and the link to the article. Joke on Shockjock1961 again. “The idea of using food for fuel is to me a non sequitur,” Hofmeister said. “Having said that, I believe there’s a role for biomass to be used in the fuel supply system.” Here is the other interesting piece from this article. "The exact impact of ethanol on food prices is hard to pin down, said a third panelist, Tim Gallagher, executive vice president of grains and biofuels for Bunge North America. “Markets find a balance. Does it have an impact on prices? Certainly it does,” he said. New mandates for biofuel use in the 2007 energy bill caused a shock to the food pricing system but the markets have since adjusted, he said." Panel sees ethanol as expensive, inefficient [Edited by: krzysiek_ck at 3/20/2012 8:23:04 AM EST]
Shockjock1961 Champion Author Illinois Posts:20,375 Points:2,211,885 Joined:Apr 2006	Message Posted: Mar 19, 2012 3:26:40 PM Ignore Shockjock1961 Report Abuse What I find interesting is that John Hofmeister claimed, not too long ago that ethanol was too inefficient and too expensive... "Ethanol is driving up food prices. The only question is how much,” said Ian Goldin, former vice president of the World Bank and now director of Oxford University’s Oxford Martin School. One study projects a 42% increase in coarse grain prices over five years, Goldin said, citing a report by the Organization for Economic Cooperation and Development (OECD) and the Food and Agricultural Organization of the U.N. John Hofmeister, Former President, Shell Oil Company and Founder and Chief Executive Officer, Citizens for Affordable Energy John Hofmeister, former president of Shell Oil Company and founder of Citizens for Affordable Energy shares that view and mentioned a Rice University Study that says federal subsidies for ethanol cost taxpayers the equivalent of $1.95 a gallon over the cost of a gallon of gasoline. “The idea of using food for fuel is to me a non sequitur,” Hofmeister said."
gamechanger2011 Champion Author Wichita Posts:1,597 Points:57,185 Joined:Jun 2011	Message Posted: Mar 19, 2012 3:00:31 PM Ignore gamechanger2011 Report Abuse Once again....it's childish...I have no interest in going to a link to see where I've posted. I know where I've posted.
reb4 Champion Author Chicago Posts:19,361 Points:1,849,825 Joined:Sep 2004	Message Posted: Mar 19, 2012 2:54:04 PM Ignore reb4 Report Abuse It's funny that you call me out that "I" only hang out in the all things ethanol topic. here is info on where you have posted: link I believe all the people that use this login are posting for ethanol only... (at least one posting in another forum category, for gasbuddy, but was on e85). Actually I hang out mostly at some other forums, but only gleaning other information. This seems most entertaining since youve started posting... I am very glad you are using E50 (that is what you said in your last posting). I am by no means an Big Oil advocate, and have taken steps to reduce my energy consumption. I own Hybrid, take public transportation, switched out most of my electric bulbs with energy efficient ones(I would replace all but it's a compromise), and even way back when I would constantly switch off the lights and appliances my family would leave running. And I don't I like to counter the "exageration" of the other people here. [Edited by: reb4 at 3/19/2012 3:55:40 PM EST]
gamechanger2011 Champion Author Wichita Posts:1,597 Points:57,185 Joined:Jun 2011	Message Posted: Mar 19, 2012 2:16:56 PM Ignore gamechanger2011 Report Abuse A lot of us are using up to E50 on non FFV vehicles an have had no problems. That's what he is saying. You crack me up Reb4. You love to hang out over hear on an ethanol forum. Is this the only forum that you participate in? Gosh I've kind of missed you! [Edited by: gamechanger2011 at 3/19/2012 3:22:00 PM EST]
reb4 Champion Author Chicago Posts:19,361 Points:1,849,825 Joined:Sep 2004	Message Posted: Mar 19, 2012 2:01:18 PM Ignore reb4 Report Abuse Lets see, what is actually the problem having a warning label placed on an e85 pump that it is for flex fuel vehicles. I don't think the intent is for people that were mixing fuel but for the stations to cover themselves.
Shockjock1961 Champion Author Illinois Posts:20,375 Points:2,211,885 Joined:Apr 2006	Message Posted: Mar 19, 2012 1:50:50 PM Ignore Shockjock1961 Report Abuse I wonder if this is simply because Shell has so much invested into ethanol?
gamechanger2011 Champion Author Wichita Posts:1,597 Points:57,185 Joined:Jun 2011	Message Posted: Mar 19, 2012 1:17:21 PM Ignore gamechanger2011 Report Abuse What oil industry did when David Blume recommended ethanol This is an interesting video
gamechanger2011 Champion Author Wichita Posts:1,597 Points:57,185 Joined:Jun 2011	Message Posted: Mar 19, 2012 1:12:17 PM Ignore gamechanger2011 Report Abuse This is the reason that you don't see more E85 at stations. If you are branded to a big oil company...it's a battle. Many will only let you put it on one dispenser. "Oil companies lose sales every time a driver chooses E85, and they employ a variety of tactics that keep the fuel out of stations that bear the company name. For instance, franchises sometimes are required to purchase all the fuel they sell from the oil company…" Contract sometimes limit advertising of E85 and restrict the use of credit cards to apply for it. Some require that any E85 pump be on a separate island, not under the main canopy." Big Oils war on ethanolWe have some first hand knowledge of this [Edited by: gamechanger2011 at 3/19/2012 2:14:56 PM EST]
reb4 Champion Author Chicago Posts:19,361 Points:1,849,825 Joined:Sep 2004	Message Posted: Mar 19, 2012 1:05:57 PM Ignore reb4 Report Abuse silverstreaker, thanks for information... Wonder if some of the subsidies and mandates in Minnesota may be impacting this? Please refer back to the chart you provided. You notice a "trend". Since 2006 the useage has gone down. Since there is only information on e85 sales, not actual sales of all fuel sold at stations, hard to say, isn't it? I can't provide exact #'s but in 2011 (july), 5,026,100 gallons were sold ... A DAY! So, compared to 4,677 gallons a month... I would say that is quite a discrepency of sales volume, and is a definte MINORITY! ** I used the same site to calculate the following information, not easy but believable to me * And in 2010 (Site doesn't give information for 2011) averaged total sales were 4,978,700 ... again a day.. Multiply that by 365 = 1,817,225,500 gallons a day.. Divide that by 12 equals 151,435,458 gallons a month. This number might include ethanol, not sure... But you get my point? By the way, please feel free to review this information... there may be errors. I totally accept it. And by the way, do whole heartedly encourage people to purchase e85 when it makes sense. I just want to put things in perspective. [Edited by: reb4 at 3/19/2012 2:07:31 PM EST]
gamechanger2011 Champion Author Wichita Posts:1,597 Points:57,185 Joined:Jun 2011	Message Posted: Mar 19, 2012 1:01:56 PM Ignore gamechanger2011 Report Abuse krzysiek ck.....and it looks like this report was written around 1999....so imagine how much higher these figures are today!
krzysiek_ck Champion Author Illinois Posts:5,500 Points:756,835 Joined:Apr 2011	Message Posted: Mar 19, 2012 12:51:47 PM Ignore krzysiek_ck Report Abuse "The report divides the external costs of gasoline usage into five primary areas: (1) Tax Subsidization of the Oil Industry; (2) Government Program Subsidies; (3) Protection Costs Involved in Oil Shipment and Motor Vehicle Services; (4) Environmental, Health, and Social Costs of Gasoline Usage; and (5) Other Important Externalities of Motor Vehicle Use. Together, these external costs total $558.7 billion to $1.69 trillion per year, which, when added to the retail price of gasoline, results in a per gallon price of $5.60 to $15.14." The Real Price of Gasoline
SilverStreaker Champion Author Twin Cities Posts:12,076 Points:2,244,100 Joined:Mar 2006	Message Posted: Mar 19, 2012 9:54:10 AM Ignore SilverStreaker Report Abuse reb4 claims "Very few people are using the flex fuel..." Got any proof? According to the Minnesota Dept of Commerce, about 20 million gallons of E85 were sold in Minnesota in 2011
reb4 Champion Author Chicago Posts:19,361 Points:1,849,825 Joined:Sep 2004	Message Posted: Mar 19, 2012 7:17:38 AM Ignore reb4 Report Abuse Is it the cars or the people to use them. Very few people are using the flex fuel...
jay93LA Champion Author New Orleans Posts:2,589 Points:627,410 Joined:Aug 2011	Message Posted: Mar 19, 2012 7:09:21 AM Ignore jay93LA Report Abuse just say no
gamechanger2011 Champion Author Wichita Posts:1,597 Points:57,185 Joined:Jun 2011	Message Posted: Mar 18, 2012 3:47:42 PM Ignore gamechanger2011 Report Abuse Goldseeker...we were at a dinner in Chicago with him when he was with Shell. He was predicting 4 years ago that we would be at $5.00 a gallon in the next 5 years. Looks like he was right. Even if we cut back our oil consumption in the US, the consumption in China and India is supposed to increase drastically. We need American Ethanol!
stickyvalves Champion Author Iowa Posts:5,418 Points:1,584,505 Joined:Oct 2005	Message Posted: Mar 18, 2012 2:13:13 PM Ignore stickyvalves Report Abuse I'll burn E85 or higher. Not a problem.
chemist74 Champion Author Cleveland Posts:13,510 Points:2,395,980 Joined:Apr 2005	Message Posted: Mar 18, 2012 1:01:54 PM Ignore chemist74 Report Abuse Methanol is easier to make from other carbon sources but it is more corrosive, more volatile, more poisonous and has a lower energy content than ethanol.
goldseeker Champion Author West Virginia Posts:19,755 Points:2,746,515 Joined:Sep 2005	Message Posted: Mar 18, 2012 3:34:09 AM Ignore goldseeker Report Abuse At $5.00 per gallon gasoline, $2.50 per gallon E100 would be a very good choice By the way, I am in DC this weekend and gas is already over $4.00 per gallon. In my home state of WVA many stations are now charging $3.95 fpr regular.