cbuck80
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Massachusetts
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Message Posted: Feb 19, 2012 2:39:43 AM
election year is the cause of it.
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MertieMan
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Lexington
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Message Posted: Feb 19, 2012 2:02:57 AM
Good topic for election year, isn't it?
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chuckwthompson
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Charlotte
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Message Posted: Feb 18, 2012 11:48:40 PM
Yawn!
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BUSSY
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Dallas
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Message Posted: Feb 18, 2012 8:40:12 PM
This topic has been discussed on this site ad nausem. How about something new and original.
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jcpatriots
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Massachusetts
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Message Posted: Feb 18, 2012 6:43:23 PM
I really don't think $5 gas will last long even if it got to that point. Once gas begins to hit the $4 mark in the US (probably about the $4.50 mark in Canada), it begins to have a SIGNIFICANT impact on the economy. $5 gas will put us into a very similar scenario as 2008: gas will be at record highs in the summer, and drop like a rock because of severe cutbacks on driving, vacationing, etc. and there will be a huge supply of it that they can't get rid of, so gas prices will plummet as a result (again, similar to 2008... gas was around $4.11 for a national average [and record high] in the summer 2008, then dropped like a rock to around the $1.50 range by late 2008 into early 2009 [I remember filling up at $1.45 that winter]).
[Edited by: jcpatriots at 2/18/2012 7:44:38 PM EST]
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Captviper13
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Virginia
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Message Posted: Feb 18, 2012 6:22:33 PM
left the house this morning gas was 3.46 returned 3.51 why ?:-(
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grampi47
Champion Author
Illinois
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Message Posted: Feb 18, 2012 6:06:28 PM
$3.49 at Speedway in Huber Heights OH, corner of SR 202 and I-70, up from $3.15 last night...there, happy now?
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Shockjock1961
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Illinois
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Message Posted: Feb 18, 2012 9:44:48 AM
"grampi - post some gas prices you old coot"
The voices in his head tell him that if he starts posting prices the conspirators will take notice and come looking for him...
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diesdown
Champion Author
North Carolina
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Message Posted: Feb 17, 2012 7:01:29 PM
Will never top out........
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johnzone1
All-Star Author
Fort Wayne
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Message Posted: Feb 17, 2012 4:35:40 PM
Probably top out at about $4.25
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TrixieNY
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Buffalo
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Message Posted: Feb 17, 2012 4:32:33 PM
grampi - post some gas prices you old coot!
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ZZZoop
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Virginia
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Message Posted: Feb 17, 2012 3:47:43 PM
How curious, grampi. In tom-tom's rant, you see a kindred spirit; I see a run-on sentence.
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grampi47
Champion Author
Illinois
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Message Posted: Feb 17, 2012 2:54:13 PM
"i think the companies that cut wages, pensions health care exc. on the working class, and the the higher ups like the ceo's and other suits make there big profits are corrupt companies, and lots of our politics in our country is corrupt, and i believe lobbyists are corrupt also, and the saudi's and other big oil countries are also corrupt, they make millions and billions, its like they control the economy"
But of course there couldn't possibly be any of that going on in the oil industry...and if you think it could be, you're just paranoid...
[Edited by: grampi47 at 2/17/2012 3:55:38 PM EST]
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tomtom08
All-Star Author
Providence
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Message Posted: Jan 28, 2012 8:49:59 AM
i think the companies that cut wages, pensions health care exc. on the working class, and the the higher ups like the ceo's and other suits make there big profits are corrupt companies, and lots of our politics in our country is corrupt, and i believe lobbyists are corrupt also, and the saudi's and other big oil countries are also corrupt, they make millions and billions, its like they control the economy
[Edited by: tomtom08 at 1/28/2012 9:54:04 AM EST]
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Shockjock1961
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Illinois
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Message Posted: Jan 24, 2012 2:06:33 PM
"I don't know if there are any I would trust these days..."
The very definition of paranoid...
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grampi47
Champion Author
Illinois
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Message Posted: Jan 22, 2012 3:04:51 PM
"Why does it depend on the size or revenue of a company? Do you believe success=corruption?"
I believe there are very few business operations these days (public or private) where there isn't corruption. It's a sad thing to say, but unfortunately greed runs rampant in business, and I believe greed is one of the main reasons this country is in such a mess.
"And how about an answer to my second question; i.e., who would you trust to do an honest audit of an energy company?"
I don't know if there are any I would trust these days...
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ZZZoop
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Virginia
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Message Posted: Jan 22, 2012 12:42:26 PM
>>I guess it depends on the size of the companies and the amount of revnues they generate. If they see a way of skimming off the top, I suppose any could be suseptible. In this day and age of Wall Street greed, it's hard to trust any of them....<<
Why does it depend on the size or revenue of a company? Do you believe success=corruption?
And how about an answer to my second question; i.e., who would you trust to do an honest audit of an energy company?
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grampi47
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Illinois
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Message Posted: Jan 22, 2012 11:44:26 AM
"grampi, do you believe that all financial reports filed by publicly-traded companies are fraudulent or just those filed by "big oil"? Is there any entity that you would trust to accurately audit the financial reports of the energy companies?"
I guess it depends on the size of the companies and the amount of revnues they generate. If they see a way of skimming off the top, I suppose any could be suseptible. In this day and age of Wall Street greed, it's hard to trust any of them....
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brerrabbitTX
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Houston
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Message Posted: Jan 22, 2012 11:12:26 AM
One additional comment on the timing of prices that grampi has brought up. Most oil deals (the physical purchase of oil) price out based on either a WTI posting, or a Brent Posting. Those are exchange traded prices and not live pricing. So if a deal is agreed to today (late January) it will be priced at loading on the average over a four day period. The price for the oil is not known until it loads, So the deal today might not price till late February. The exchange only trades forward months and stops around the 20th of the month. So in January till the 20th the price is for February. However after the 20th the price is for March. So the value of the oil they have bought is unknown currently and buyers must wait till it loads. Once it is priced at loading then it takes about 20 to 22 days to get to the US gulf coast. During that time the value of the oil on the ship can go up of down with the market. So the buyer is taking substantial price risk. Think of it this way. He pays $100 a barrel for the oil but duting the trip oil drops to $90 a barrel. Since a super tanker can carry 1 million barrels, the buyer may have just lost $10 million. When his oil hits shore and is refined he has to sell it in the down market. Of course it might go up as well. Either way it is a significant gamble either way.
I cannot justify price swings other than to state what I have stated before. On the exchange for every seller there is a buyer. Therefore someone with a lot to gain or lose has confidence either way. Therefore when prices move people with a lot of money believe it is real. People will say it's all the speculators fault but the one thing I do know is that they are taking huge financial risks if they are just speculatively trading hoping to cash in.
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brerrabbitTX
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Houston
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Message Posted: Jan 22, 2012 10:59:44 AM
grampi47 wants to know where all the money goes. Well if you have read what I have posted time and again I have said 75% plus of the worlds oil is owned by Nationalized oil companies. This is a significant fact not to be overlooked. This means that when someone, most likely a refiner in the US buys oil in the Middle East most of the price he pays goes straight to the Royal Family of Saudi Arabia because they own the oil. They pay oil companies to produce and transport the oil for them but royalties don't work there the way they do in the US. Here if you lease your land for oil production you will get a 1/6th royalty or maybe a 1/5th royalty. In Saudi Arabia the royal family keeps like 5/6 of the money and the oil companies get the 1/6th to produce the oil. Same is true for Chavez's oil in Venezuala, the government there gets all the money, and Nigeria and numerous other countries. So the point is those countries get the lions share of the money and the oil companies and refiners in the US have to pay the higher prices. Now oil companies do benifit from the higher oil prices based on the amounts they control but the shear volume of what they control is small compared to the individual countries. So once a refiner is forced to pay the higher price then the mark is set and based on the economics I have presented time and again there is not much that can be done. You talk about wide swings in prices and I can only assume you mean at the pump. Yes prices vary at the pump a lot, but also consider that on the average fillup of 15 gallons a .20 price move only means $3.00. Now I understand that if every fillup is $3.00 more it adds up, but that's not the case. It goes up and down in a range. The problem is the range has increased dramatically in the past several years. Please keep in mind also that the average profit at the individual site is only .08 to .10 a gallon. Also note from my last post that pricing theroy generally sets the price per gallon based on the cost of the next gallon they have to buy. In otherwords their replacement cost.
Now in another thread we had a long discussion where you said since the Oil Companies make so much money then they can afford to lower the cost of gas. I explained why no company should ever cross subsidize business lines and that is and has been the standard belief in all forms of business for years. I have also explained how many companies touch the product in the supply chain and how each has to cover it's costs and show some profitability to stay in business.
If your only arguement is the oil companies get all the money from the sale of the oil then you can see where that is not the case as I have explained. So realize this, as long as oil prices are at their current level, we will continue to pay what we pay for fuel. We will go up and down in a range but like it or not the days of $1.50 a gallon gas are gone forever. No amount of yelling, screaming or whining will get them down again. No government intervention, no legislation, no new alternative fuel. Ethanol won't do it. Not until we shift to a radically different means of personal transportation will we see a big change in the way things work. Because remember with any type of change comes literally billions of dollars worth of infrastucture and that my friend costs money too.
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ZZZoop
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Virginia
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Message Posted: Jan 22, 2012 8:53:16 AM
>>....you believe info to be facts as presented by a bunch of liars....<<
grampi, do you believe that all financial reports filed by publicly-traded companies are fraudulent or just those filed by "big oil"? Is there any entity that you would trust to accurately audit the financial reports of the energy companies?
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Shockjock1961
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Illinois
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Message Posted: Jan 22, 2012 8:51:08 AM
How can you call someone a liar without proof grampi?
I know, I know... The voices in your head told you they were...
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grampi47
Champion Author
Illinois
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Message Posted: Jan 22, 2012 7:32:34 AM
"As I said before..."
....you believe info to be facts as presented by a bunch of liars....
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Shockjock1961
Champion Author
Illinois
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Message Posted: Jan 21, 2012 10:04:47 PM
As I said before...
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grampi47
Champion Author
Illinois
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Message Posted: Jan 21, 2012 9:59:20 PM
"You can't prove to a person who is mentally ill, that they are in fact mentally ill. It's to easy for them to simply state to you and themselves that the proven facts you present them are all lies. This is especially true of those who think everyone one but them are involved in their paranoid "conspiracy"..."
What you fail to realize is that neither you, nor anyone else has provided any facts...oil company reported profit figures verified by those they're in cahoots with are not facts....
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Shockjock1961
Champion Author
Illinois
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Message Posted: Jan 21, 2012 2:59:20 PM
You can't prove to a person who is mentally ill, that they are in fact mentally ill. It's to easy for them to simply state to you and themselves that the proven facts you present them are all lies. This is especially true of those who think everyone one but them are involved in their paranoid "conspiracy"...
Fortunately, sane persons can recognize a paranoid schizophrenics viewpoint for what it is...
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grampi47
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Illinois
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Message Posted: Jan 21, 2012 12:25:18 PM
"grampi, you realize that you're the odd man out with that viewpoint, right? Generally, when one believes that "everyone" is on the take except themselves, we call that "paranoia."And, you've yet to explain why stockholders--that you appear to admit are getting cheated--are willing to sit back and take no action."
They probably don't know they're being cheated.
"grampi, can you explain why Enron and it's auditor, Arthur Andersen, got caught and are now out of business? They were part of your alleged corrupt energy sector. Why couldn't they continue on just like all the other energy companies? Why did federal prosecutors and stockholders choose to go after Enron but not after all of the other corrupt energy companies?"
Maybe the gov wasn't getting as much, or any money from Enron. Who knows? All I know is it's yet to be proven the oil industry is all on the up and up and there's no corruption going on...if you want to be naive and believe it, be my guest, I'm just not buying it...
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ZZZoop
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Virginia
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Message Posted: Jan 21, 2012 10:56:45 AM
>>The same can be said about claims from the big oil cheerleaders. As was mentioned before, just because oil company profit numbers are verified is proof of nothing...<<
grampi, you realize that you're the odd man out with that viewpoint, right? Generally, when one believes that "everyone" is on the take except themselves, we call that "paranoia."And, you've yet to explain why stockholders--that you appear to admit are getting cheated--are willing to sit back and take no action.
grampi, can you explain why Enron and it's auditor, Arthur Andersen, got caught and are now out of business? They were part of your alleged corrupt energy sector. Why couldn't they continue on just like all the other energy companies? Why did federal prosecutors and stockholders choose to go after Enron but not after all of the other corrupt energy companies?
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MIT05
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Massachusetts
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Message Posted: Jan 21, 2012 9:08:42 AM
No more than 4 dollars this year 4 is the magic number.
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grampi47
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Illinois
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Message Posted: Jan 21, 2012 8:29:29 AM
"Grampi47 - And you have proof, right?"
I have just as much proof as those who claim there's no corruption, crookedness, or conspiring going on in the industry...
[Edited by: grampi47 at 1/21/2012 9:31:27 AM EST]
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WES03
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Maryland
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Message Posted: Jan 21, 2012 8:00:59 AM
Grampi47 - And you have proof, right?
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grampi47
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Illinois
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Message Posted: Jan 20, 2012 7:40:27 PM
brerrabbitTX
You provide some very good explinations of oil industry pricing, but you leave out one very important aspect. You never even attempt to justify the large price swings and where all that money goes.
We all know how speculators can, and do cause huge price swings in the market, and most of the time these price swings are caused by nothing more than feelings; rarely do the things their fears are supposedly based on ever occur. And when the price of crude goes up, so does the price of gas, and it happens immediately. Where does all this extra money go? Afterall, the actual cost of supplies hasn't gone up, it's an artificial increase caused by feelings injected into the market. But when this happens, it's always the consumer being screwed by unnecessary higher prices. This is large scale profiteering by a market that operates in a cartel...
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grampi47
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Illinois
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Message Posted: Jan 20, 2012 7:21:32 PM
">>My personal opinion is the corruption and payoffs are bigger in the oil industry than they are in the US government.<<
All that's missing is facts."
The same can be said about claims from the big oil cheerleaders. As was mentioned before, just because oil company profit numbers are verified is proof of nothing....that's like Charles Manson getting a signed and notarized statement from his cell mate stating that he isn't crazy...
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jmb417
Rookie Author
Indiana
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Message Posted: Jan 20, 2012 11:49:18 AM
Gouging is all over, as far down as the county level. They're doing it right here in Jasper County, IN. Our fuel prices are higher than most places in Lake County, usually by a minimum of .25 cents per gallon. Why? They say its because of a different tax structure. I can travel 6 miles, and get at least .20 cents difference in price, usually higher. That sounds to me like gouging.
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KrispyKreme
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Richmond
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Message Posted: Jan 19, 2012 10:40:50 PM
+1 ZZZoop
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ZZZoop
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Virginia
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Message Posted: Jan 19, 2012 7:28:09 PM
>>My personal opinion is the corruption and payoffs are bigger in the oil industry than they are in the US government.<<
All that's missing is facts.
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CHEAPERDREAMS
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Nevada
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Message Posted: Jan 19, 2012 7:22:32 PM
Gampi is right for all practical purposes. So are the economic freaks that only know how to count beans. Something everyone overlooks is, the oil rich countries (with the exception of Canada and Mexico) hate our guts.
This includes the Saudis. Most of these countries are muslim controlled and don't give a hill of beans about the average Christian.
So they have the oil, they have the corrupt officials, they have set the price for a barrel of crude, everyone gets on the wagon even if it only costs a few cents per gallon to drill and move it to the refiner. This all came out during the 90s law suit against Chevron and their unfair pricing to their independent dealers.
To get a drilling contract in one of the oil rich countries, you can figure it is going to cost the driller about a $100,000,000.00 just to grease the palms of the controlling officials. My personal opinion is the corruption and payoffs are bigger in the oil industry than they are in the US government.
Now you add in the super rich with billions to invest. They will spend a $100.00 to make a penny. But they do it by the billions, every day. They have enough invested that they can control how much gas and oil is available to the gas market. OK so they spent 4 or 5 million to buy a contract at to high of a price. So rather than lose their shirts they sit on the contract by going long and wait till the market goes up again, then they sell. Conspiracy to commit fraud, I doubt. How ever I do think the oil producing countries and the seven sisters do manipulate the price of oil to maximise their profits.
In the long run, no government investigation will ever find the true cost of crude oil. This will be well masked by oil executives and country governments. Do we give up? No!!! If you have the opportunity to do business with some of the oil elite, charge them excessively as they do us. Deal with local oil/independent dealers. Buy only US made goods. Look for ways to cut your oil footprint. 40 and 50 MPG cars can still go fast enough to splatter you all over the highway.I now resign my soapbox.
Thanks for reading this post.
[Edited by: CHEAPERDREAMS at 1/19/2012 8:25:08 PM EST]
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ZZZoop
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Virginia
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Message Posted: Jan 19, 2012 4:56:02 PM
>>No, they're getting cheated, just like consumers...<<
Shockingly, grampi, you really didn't answer the question.
Shareholders sue their parent companies on a frequent basis. What's keeping the shareholders from suing their respective oil company if they're being cheated through hidden profits?
Similarly, the big financial institutions have very deep pockets and large legal departments with plenty of sharp elbows. Vanguard and Fidelity each control over $1.5 trillion in assets. These are the type of companies than can go toe-to-toe with big oil. Why would they just sit back and get cheated?
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brerrabbitTX
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Houston
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Message Posted: Jan 19, 2012 9:09:33 AM
gatekeeper two, you are merely feeding the frenzy of his conspiracy theroy by suggesting that the information that is available means nothing. I have at various times in various threads offered a tremendous amout of information on why prices are what they are. grampi chooses to ignore all that information and retreat into his conspiracy theroy talk. It would seem based on your reply that you think there may be a conspiracy as well.
Let's take some of grampi's thoughts and see if you think they hold water. He says the cost of production for a barrel of oil is $10 and everything above that is just profit for the oil companies. Do you believe that? I work in the industry and can tell you that the average cost to transport a barrel of oil from Africa or the Middle East to the US Gulf coast is $10. Well if the cost to produce the oil is $10 if you add the cost of transport that makes it at least $20 a barrel, so can we at least agree grampi is wrong on that point? Now as to the $10 cost to produce the oil industry passed that threshold many many years ago. Besides the cost of any scare resource is based on the markets willingness to pay the price for that product in addition to the fact that the real value of a scarce commodity is at least the cost of producing the next unit of that commodity. So one could say that the cost of a barrel of oil should be at least the amount it costs to lease land, explore for the product, build production facilities and infrastucture to take that next barrel to market because that truly is the value of that commodity. Look at it another way you bought AT&T stock in 1950 for some ridiculously low price by todays standards. You still own that stock and want to sell it today. Now should you be held to the 1950's standard and only sell it for a fair profit over the price you acquired it at or will you sell it at today's market price and make a lot of money? Was there conspiracy involved in this transaction? Is it illeagal, immoral, or corupt in any way? The answer is no. It was a normal business transaction.
grampi as well as others will tell you it is speculation that drives prices up and traders making obscene profits that cause oil prices to be so high. Well lets remember that for every sale of an oil futures contract on the exchanges of the world, there had to be a buyer. Exchange traded contracts are a zero sum game. In otherwords to settle the futures market each month the number of contracts sold has to equal the number of contracts bought. So while many say the traders are pushing the market up the reality is there are balanced numbers of them buying as well as selling. The definition of a market price is the price point where a buyer and seller are willing to transact. Since the market balances out before final settlement each month then by definition that is the market price.
Now I know that the conspiracy guys are not with me to this point and have all said everything I have said so far is bullshit but everything I have said so far is also current economic theroy as taught at universities all across the planet. I know I have taken economics at a few of them.
So if the price of a barrel of oil is set by the market based on gnerally accepted economic theroy and that price is $90 for a barrel of Saudi crude in the Saudi Gulf then that is what a refiner in the US pays for it. Add $10 for transport to the US Gulf Coast and that makes it $100 a barrel or more importantly $2.38 a gallon for raw crude. Do nothing but add the taxes US driver will pay at the pump and lets say that is on average .45 then the pump price for raw crude and taxes is $2.83.
Now a lot of people won't agree with me up to this point and that's fine, but that is also reality. Take the crude from the ship to the refinery, refine it, transport it, treat it, add the EPA required additives, add the ethanol that most states require, and truck it to the stations. When I passed the Chevron on the corner by my house this morning they were selling 87 octane gas with 10% ethanol for $3.19. Texas fuel tax including state and federal is about .39 cents which means for the crude, and all the other added costs they had $2.81 to work with. Everyone in the chain therotically covered their cost, and made their profit at that level.
I don't know about you but I think that is fair business without any conspiracies involved. However you and grampi are free to believe whatever you want to because it's a free country. I just have a ton of data I can access to support my conclusions while grampi only has a feeling, or a belief that some how, some way it's all a conspiracy and we are all just to stupid to see it.
You say I have no evidence yet I have tons of it. I don't know what you want, for it to be posted here, links given or what? Most everything I have said is readily available at numerous publicly available web sites so I really don't feel the need to provide the data. It is not speculation on my part, it is reality.
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gatekeepertwo
Veteran Author
Wilmington
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Message Posted: Jan 18, 2012 10:50:50 PM
why is everyone picking on grampi47? The rules of this website includes no personal attacks allowed (ie. "loon", "schizophrenic", etc.). If you don't agree, then simply state your case with evidence that you state grampi47 does not have. If you have no evidence, then it is hypocritical to complain about grampi47. How do 10Q's, 10K's, audited reports, etc. prove that grampi47 is wrong? Instruction on how the system works des nothing to rule out price gouging. If you can't prevent prove that price gouging does not occur then you have no better a position than soes grampi47. All audits do is check money in, money out and money left over. Audits do not stop price gouging.
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gatekeepertwo
Veteran Author
Wilmington
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Message Posted: Jan 18, 2012 10:47:24 PM
why is everyone picking on grampi47? The rules of this website includes no personal attacks allowed (ie. "loon", "schizophrenic", etc.). If you don't agree, then simply state your case with evidence that you state grampi47 does not have. If you have no evidence, then it is hypocritical to complain about grampi47. How do 10Q's, 10K's, audited reports, etc. prove that grampi47 is wrong? Instruction on how the system works des nothing to rule out price gouging. If you can't prevent prove that price gouging does not occur then you have no better a position than soes grampi47. All audits do is check money in, money out and money left over. Audits do not stop price gouging.
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gatekeepertwo
Veteran Author
Wilmington
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Message Posted: Jan 18, 2012 10:36:29 PM
why is everyone picking on grampi47? The rules of this website includes no personal attacks allowed (ie. "loon", "schizophrenic", etc.). If you don't agree, then simply state your case with evidence that you state grampi47 does not have. If you have no evidence, then it is hypocritical to complain about grampi47. How do 10Q's, 10K's, audited reports, etc. prove that grampi47 is wrong? Instruction on how the system works does nothing to rule out price gouging. If you can't prove that price gouging does not occur then you have no better a position than does grampi47. All audits do is check money in, money out and money left over. Audits do not stop price gouging. It is the same kind of speculation that you complain grampi47 is relying on that you use to say the evidence you showed grampi47 proves there is no price posturing or as I call it price gouging. So, please stop the personal attacks and discuss things like grown adults.
[Edited by: gatekeepertwo at 1/18/2012 11:46:13 PM EST]
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Travel1st
Champion Author
Las Vegas
Posts:2,930
Points:472,610
Joined:Aug 2011
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Message Posted: Jan 18, 2012 6:29:33 PM
Speculation.
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grampi47
Champion Author
Illinois
Posts:5,939
Points:78,865
Joined:Apr 2006
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Message Posted: Jan 18, 2012 6:19:34 PM
No, they're getting cheated, just like consumers...
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ZZZoop
Champion Author
Virginia
Posts:16,382
Points:3,127,310
Joined:May 2004
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Message Posted: Jan 18, 2012 5:37:43 PM
>>Give it up ZZZoop... <<
NEVER!!!
OK, grampi, try these points on for size:
1. Why doesn't some ambitious state attorney general or federal prosecutor tackle this corruption? Talk about a rocket ride up the political ladder. Are these folks in on the conspiracy too?
2. If the oil companies are making much larger profits than officially reported, that means tens of millions of stockholders are getting cheated out of these profits as they only get the dividend based on the official financial filings. Remember, these aren't just individual stockholders; these are also big, powerful institutional stockholders like Fidelity, Vanguard, state retirement funds, etc. Are these folks also in on the conspiracy?
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grampi47
Champion Author
Illinois
Posts:5,939
Points:78,865
Joined:Apr 2006
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Message Posted: Jan 18, 2012 4:25:09 PM
You guys are asking me to prove something you know darn well only someone who is, or would've been an insider and is privy to this info would have. Even if someone who does have this info did spill his or her guts, they probably wouldn't live long aftey did so. You guys act like conspiracies are nothing but a big joke and therefore couldn't possibly happen. I've got news for you, they do happen, and it's very possible it's happening in the oil industry. As I've said, just because the companies post their profit numbers to the public, and just because those numbers are supposedly verified, it's all proof of nothing because it's still possible they are working together to scam the system, and they absolutely do have an incentive to do this...we all know people will do ANYTHING for money...
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Somis1
Champion Author
Ventura
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Message Posted: Jan 18, 2012 1:39:58 PM
There is no proof of any of this, just speculation.
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brerrabbitTX
Champion Author
Houston
Posts:1,030
Points:18,285
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Message Posted: Jan 18, 2012 1:19:48 PM
I am very close to hitting the ignore button for grampi and must admit that in so doing it would be the first time I have ever done it on any message board I have ever been on. The only thing stopping me is the humor I find in his posts. Had another long debate with him on the very same issues in another thread and asked him numerous times for any evidence to support his position. His response was the same there as they are here. He has no proof and will continue to question your beliefs dispite the fact that I ask him to read 10Q's, 10K's, annual reports, audited financials, background information on the oil industry, world reports on who actually owns over 75% of the oil in the world, how refined products are made, how they are priced, and how the system works as a whole.
His response is the same every time, yeah you would believe that but it's a bunch of hooey because it's all a conspiracy. Well honestly I am really disappointed because I love a good detailed conspiracy theroy as much as the next guy but grampi can't even give me any details about the conspiracy so I can get a good laugh from that. grampi I must say you are really disappointing me. Give me some names, some dates, some places and how the whole thing works. You know like on September 14 2001 there was a secret meeting of the double secret triumvariant of evil doers consisting of Bush Senior and Junior, the Saudi King, Chavez, Nigerian tribal leaders, and the secret society of Canadian Knights in the outer Mongolian reaches where it was decided to conspire to raise oil and gas prices to the benifit of the society and thus allow them sufficient profits to take over the world.
That's how you tell a conspiracy theroy. Just saying it's all a conspiracy is not nearly as exciting. I want names, dates, plans, goals. Come on man you can do better, I know you can!
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Shockjock1961
Champion Author
Illinois
Posts:20,124
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Message Posted: Jan 18, 2012 12:45:59 PM
"And you big oil cheeleaders will believe anything you see/hear/read about the oil industry as long as it puts it in a good light..."
I don't know about "Big Oil Cheerleaders", but I for one require some type of proof before I believe something to be true. Unfortunately, you have not one shred of evidence for any of the Conspiracy Theories that you endless whine about Grampi. On the other hand there is plenty of evidence that shows that Your Conspiracy theories are completely false...
So guess which I'm going to choose to believe Grampi...
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grampi47
Champion Author
Illinois
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Message Posted: Jan 18, 2012 12:31:33 PM
"Grampi's got his tin foil hat on to tight for you ever to be able to convince him that what the voices in his head are telling him is pure rubbish...
That's the nice thing about being a Conspiracy theorists or a paranoid schizophrenic, you can simply deny any proof presented as "lies" and continue on with your delusional thoughts..."
And you big oil cheeleaders will believe anything you see/hear/read about the oil industry as long as it puts it in a good light...
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